Tuesday 1 May 2018

01. Forfeits

CURRENT STATUS
NOTICE OF MOTION ready
ABM 1-Jul-2018



FORFEIT ISSUES
  1. Collect all the rules about forfeits into a single regulation, so it's easier to follow.
  2. Teams conceding forfeits are subject to a financial penalty determined at the Annual General Meeting. (Currently a flat $200 for any kind of game regardless of type.)
  3. Review the other costs. (Forfeiting team pays wicket fees and umpires fees.)
  4. Make explicit the process for the granting of forfeits. (No forfeit is guaranteed. Management Committee retains the right to make a final decision.)
  5. What conditions lead to a forfeit? (e.g. If minimum 7 players are not present at the time for start of play... do we wait 5 minutes? or 30? What if both teams are short of 7 players? Who gets the forfeit?)
  6. Points distribution for a forfeit. (Is it maximum points scored by any other team in that round? Is there any circumstance where that is not so? So let's say so.)
DISCUSSION
1. Collect all the Rules

Saturday Regulations 

The regulations that have relevance or mention forfeits are:
  • MINIMUM NUMBER OF PLAYERS 9.18, 9.19
  • POINTS FOR FORFEITED MATCHES 9.22
  • POINTS FOR FORFEITS AGAINST WITHDRAWN TEAMS 9.23
  • PROVISIONS FOR TEAM WITHDRAWALS 9.24
  • ENTERING MATCH RESULTS AFTER THE END OF THE MATCH 14.6, 14.7
These have been gathered and rewritten so they're easy to find and follow.
Sat Regs 9.25 and 24.5 deal with the application of disciplinary penalties to clubs in breach of regulations. They are not considered relevant to this discussion.

Sunday 50 Over Regs and Super 20 Regs 
Some version of these regs are present in Sunday 50 and Super 20 regs, some have subtle variations.
  • A renumbered version of the proposal will replace Sunday Regs 10 and 26 and Super 20 Regs 7 and 20.2. (The numbering in Super 20 Regs will be subject to change.)

2. & 3. Forfeit costs are discussed and decided at the Annual General meeting. No Playing Regulation changes are needed.

4. Explicit Process and Forfeit Conditions
Forfeits seem to cause confusion especially when it comes to the rules.



'Forfeit Conditions' states the principle condition for a forfeit but an explanatory preamble and a section called 'Forfeit Caution' are meant to spell out the procedure.


Forfeits come in two main shapes and sizes.

Often a team will call a game off several days in advance because they know their team members will be otherwise engaged (footy, weddings, interstate trips. end of season lack of interest or some other reason they come up with).

This is characterised by the call off occurring up to a week before the game begins.

More occasionally there will be a team which struggles to get numbers together on a day due to traffic congestion, car breakdowns, mis-organisation, fill in players who get lost or go to the wrong ground.

This is characterised by the team failing to have a minimum number of players (7) ready at time for start of play (say 1pm).

Up to now Unofficially, umpires are encouraged to delay the start in such circumstances in the hope that the team short of players might have some players arrive late so that the match can begin.

This often leads to opposition confusion about 'cut off' time (there isn't one) and then 'claiming a forfeit' (it's subject to ManCom approval which can take weeks). I guess there's some minor inconvenience involved also.

It is important that teams making a claim for a forfeit make no statement or action that might be taken to mean they refuse to play because they have 'won by forfeit'.


6. Points for a Forfeit
This is unchanged.

It was suggested that there may be a case for reducing the opportunity of the non-forfeiting team to score maximum points. A delayed start can reduce the time for play and the opportunity to score bonus points. At season's end there is often some anxiety about this due to finals especially when some sides get to play 'weak' teams who may offer more forfeits.

However...
  • If the delay were due to weather you'd probably conclude that it was bad luck.
  • If the non-forfeiting team is playing 11 against 8 (which may include fill-in players) then their chance of scoring runs quickly is increased by the gaps in the field. 
  • Also the non-forfeiting team will get full bowling bonus points if they can take just 8 wickets rather than the usual 10. An outright win can be achieved by taking just 16 wickets rather than the usual 20.


 PROPOSAL

Saturday Regulations


EXISTING REGULATIONS PROPOSED NEW REGULATION
9.18 Each team must have a minimum number of seven (7) registered playing members present at start of play on the first day.
9.18 Nil
9.19 If the number of players is reduced below seven for any reason after the start of play on the first day, the match will continue. 9.19 Nil

FORFEITS

Preamble: Sometimes a match cannot start on time due to incomplete teams.
In such circumstances Umpires and Captains are encouraged to delay the start of play in the hope that any team short of players might have some players arrive late so that the match can continue.
It is important that teams making a claim for a forfeit make no statement or action that might be taken to mean they refuse to play because they have 'won by forfeit'.
MINIMUM NUMBER OF PLAYERS
FORFEIT CONDITIONS
9.18 Each team must have a minimum number of seven (7) registered playing members present at start of play on the first day.
9.22.1 Each team must have a minimum number of seven (7) registered playing members present at start of play on the first day.
9.19 If the number of players is reduced below seven for any reason after the start of play on the first day, the match will continue.
9.22.2 If the number of players is reduced below seven for any reason after the start of play on the first day, the match will continue.

FORFEIT CAUTION
9.22.3 Players, captains and umpires are expected to make efforts to allow the match to proceed if at all possible.

9.22.4 There is no cut-off time for 'claiming' a forfeit.
9.22.1 The Management Committee will retain the right to decide upon such forfeits.
9.22.5 All claims for forfeit will be examined by the Management Committee and will be subject to confirmation.
POINTS FOR FORFEITED MATCHES
POINTS FOR FORFEITED MATCHES
9.22 Teams receiving forfeits may be allocated the maximum number of points scored by any other team in that grade for the match.
9.22.6 Teams receiving forfeits may be allocated the maximum number of points scored by any other team in that grade for the match.
9.22.1 The Management Committee will retain the right to decide upon such forfeits.

9.22.2 Maximum points means match points plus bonus incentive points.
9.22.7 Maximum points means match points plus bonus incentive points.
POINTS FOR FORFEITS AGAINST WITHDRAWN TEAMS
POINTS FOR FORFEITS AGAINST WITHDRAWN TEAMS
PROVISIONS FOR TEAM WITHDRAWALS
9.23 In the event of a team withdrawing from the competition after the commencement of the first match of the season, each opposing team will be allocated a number of points as determined from time to time by the Management Committee, or at the end of each match, in the particular grade.
9.23 In the event of a team withdrawing from the competition after the commencement of the first match of the season, each opposing team will be allocated a number of points as determined from time to time by the Management Committee, or at the end of each match, in the particular grade.
PROVISIONS FOR TEAM WITHDRAWALS

9.24 If a team withdraws from the competition after the commencement of the first match of the season, the team withdrawing will be deemed to be lowest graded team from that club.
9.24 If a team withdraws from the competition after the commencement of the first match of the season, the team withdrawing will be deemed to be lowest graded team from that club.
9.24.1 For example if there are two teams in different grades from the same club and the higher graded team withdraws, then the lower grade team will be promoted.
9.24.1 For example if there are two teams in different grades from the same club and the higher graded team withdraws, then the lower grade team will be promoted.


ENTERING MATCH RESULTS AFTER THE END OF THE MATCH
(no change)
14.6 Entry of match results is required for any match abandoned due to weather or forfeit.
(no change)
14.7 Players listed for abandoned or forfeited matches count toward qualification for play-offs and finals matches.
(no change)

Sunday 50 Over Regs and Super 20 Regs
Some of these regs are present in Sunday 50 and Super 20 regs, some have subtle variations.
A renumbered version of this will replace Sunday Regs 10 and 26 and Super 20 Regs 7 and 20.2. (The numbering in Super 20 Regs will be subject to change.)


ABM 1-Jul-2018





CORRESPONDENCE

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: (A QSDCA umpire)
Date: 12 February 2018 at 12:03
Subject: (A match in season 2017/18)

To: Mel Lowings <mel.lowings@gmail.com>
Cc: Ab M <maurice19cricket@gmail.com>, Kevin Haley <kevinjhaley@bigpond.com>


Thanks Anthony and Mel.  Fully understand QSDCA position and as umpire we will do our best to explain the situation to the teams involved.

Yet comes around Finals time and teams fighting for points, it will be inevitable that some teams will get a bit edgy.

Regs xxxxx


On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:34 PM, Mel Lowings <mel.lowings@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi xxxxxx

The first problem is that some players from South Brisbane Juniors play " Junior Cricket " that may finish at 12noon - they then find it difficult to arrive at their appointed ground for their match , prior to 1.00pm .

This has occurred in a previous match with them when they played at Bracken Ridge which was a fair distance to travel . Ultimately , as the official  umpire for the match , you should do your best to find out the reason for the other players not having arrived in time .

It's possible there could have been a traffic accident or a vehicle broken down . The suggestion is that you communicate the reason ( or possible reason ) for the delay in players arriving , with the opposition captain , and definitely away from his players  .

You are correct in that our regulations do not advise you of a cut-off time of when a possible forfeit arises . The start of play is 1.00pm and anytime from then ( should a team not have the minimum of 7 players on the first day of a match ) a captain has the right to claim a forfeit .

As stated by Anthony (ABM) , the Management Committee of QSDCA prefers that this does not happen and so it falls on the official umpire to try to follow the steps mentioned in the first 3 lines of this email and hopefully thereby avoid a forfeit .

Regards


Mel Lowings
-

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Ab M <maurice19cricket@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi xxxx,

It's better that the game got underway (even if it was a bit late). Forfeits attract financial penalty for the team which concedes them (all wicket fees, umpire fees and a fine).

You're right.There is no definition of cut off time for a forfeit in playing regulations.

In Subbies cricket, it is normal practice that forfeits are not 'claimed' or automatic. Forfeits are subject to confirmation by the Management Committee, usually by a motion at a monthly meeting.

In the case you have discussed I think if you substituted rain for team absence as the reason for the shortened game that there would be little argument... (i.e. bad luck, you missed out because of rain...)

The playing regulations about forfeits are likely to be considered for review ahead of the next association Annual General Meeting in July. (I think that grouping the separate regulations into a single number is an obvious start.) I am keen to hear any suggestions you have or may have heard about that may improve these rules.

See you at the ump's meeting.

Regs,
ABM Sun 5.36p




On 11 February 2018 at 09:08, (A QSDCA umpire) wrote:
Dear Mel, Kevin and all,

I have finished Day 1 of the captioned match.  Not sure if QSDCA will send another umpire for Day 2, but team lists are attached and status of match as per below:

- South Brisbane won the toss and elected to bat
- South Brisbane 10/86 in 40 overs
- Logan City 4/111 dec in 30 overs

So Day 2, South Brisbane will be starting its 2nd inning.

There was an incident, however.  South Brisbane have only 3 players at 1pm, and 7 players at 1:25pm when the game starts.  The 6 overs lost we tried to make up with shorten drinks and tea breaks, and extend the game until light is not possible (to the agreement of both captains).

But a question was raised that, if a team does not have 7 players to start, is there a cut-off time that the team will need to forfeit the match?  For example, if the team can't have 7 players by 2pm, game will be called off and award the match to the opposition?

I don't think I found anything on this in the playing regulations, but if there is please let me know.

The implication is, if forfeit does take place, while the winning team gets maximum points scored by any other team in that grade for the match, it might not be enough for them, say to get into the finals.  If forfeit does NOT take place, and say the game can only start at 2pm, that's 15 overs lost and the shorten game will limit for opportunity for a team to have enough time to chase for outright win and bonus incentive points, again say for getting into the finals.  Either way the team that wants to score more points will be disadvantaged by the lateness of another team.

Appreciate your thoughts on the above.

Regs xxxx






2 comments:

  1. Adam Brady writes:
    With the forfeiture one, do you think we should add the following note to 9.22.1 below just for further clarity:

    9.22.1 Each team must have a minimum number of seven (7) registered playing members present at start of play on the first day.

    Note that the start of play can be delayed past the scheduled start time of play of 12:30pm or 1pm.

    Just trying to highlight that the start of play does not mean 12:30 or 1pm i.e. if a team doesn’t have 7 players at 12:30pm, it is not grounds for applying for a forfeit.

    With no cut off time, in practice if a team turned up with say 6 players at 12:30pm and their captain said they could get another player at 4:30pm, how would you handle and mange this ?

    ReplyDelete
  2. ABM Replies:
    Forfeits - The line you have suggested does not say how such a decision is made or by whom. (Think about how this might work when there is no umpire present....)
    I think we'd better be ***careful*** not to create a loophole for slack teams who want to start whenever they feel like it. Something like "where's your players? Oh they're still coming.. can't we wait for a bit? But that has happened 3 times in 3 weeks now!"

    Also sentence two in the preamble already raises the idea of a delayed start.


    The way I've tried to write this is:

    Preamble - shape the attitude we want..
    Forfeit condition - the official position
    Forfeit caution - don't be too quick to "claim" things and start doing a victory dance, fellers! We're gonna play if we can... somehow. The outcome will be decided by ManCom.


    The ManCom can wield a bit of attitude and power here, too. I can envisage some team who needs the points to get into the finals in Round 15 being far too keen for their own good. So ManCom has the power to overrule any nonsense (e.g. a collusion result where one team agrees to concede a forfeit because the other team wants an easy win for some no-good purpose.)

    For the example you cite, I think I (or any other umpire) might get captains together (assuming the 6 player team includes a captain) and say something like "have a 'pretend' toss and put the 6 player team in to bat so we can start". Another option would be to ask the full team to offer some volunteer fielders if the 6 player team is to bowl... Delaying the start to 4.30pm is an **extreme** option in this case... But the actual circumstances might dictate something different. Certainly the complete team would have a 'claim' to a forfeit in this case. If they wanted to pursue this I would expect that we spend at least some time trying to get the match started and then if nothing results, write in to secretary@qsdca.com.au and tell the tale.

    An interesting question might be if the game started with 6 players and then they got out really quickly (like in half an hour or so) would the match be forced to stop? How does this affect the claim for a forfeit?


    The line in the preamble about "teams making a claim for a forfeit make no statement or action that might be taken to mean they refuse to play because they have 'won by forfeit' " is meant to discourage truculent teams who say things like "Right, 5 past 1. Where's your team? Not coming? We win by forfeit!! See ya"

    Also 9.22.3 says "(parties) are expected to make efforts... to proceed if at all possible" means wait & see, be sensible, don't be an idiot about it. The thing we want is people to try to play if they can.

    Potentially this invites argument and trouble I guess. But the ManCom reserves the right to overrule everything if need be.

    Maybe 9.22.5 needs to be stronger....

    Maybe.... 9.22.5 All claims for forfeit will only be confirmed if and when the circumstances and outcome of the match have been considered by the Management Committee.

    ReplyDelete